What an enthralling title hey?
Well this task is quite simple. All I want you to do is to discuss the validity of the quote below and give examples to back up your points be they back the statement, go against the statement or do neither. Onto the quote then:
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering leads to the darkside"
Yes it is a Star Wars one (which I hope I quoted right....) and there is a point to that which I will get to later.
Colin Waring
Fear only leads to anger if it is expressed incorrectly. Anger leads to hate only if one lets it take over their thoughts about the person. Hate, if real, will cause suffering, to both the person doing the hating and the one being hated, maybe more. Suffering doesn't lead to the dark side, if you see it from a light/dark perspective, greed and excessive hate lead to the dark side.
Rogue Ace
OK, let's get the tools ready, this is a dissection here, or at least a good mockery of one :)
This phrase contains 5 points and 4 steps. Actually 6 steps, if you think about it.
The 5 basic points are: Fear, Anger, Hate, Suffering, Darkside. The 4 steps being the ones between Fear and Anger, Anger and Hate, Hate to Suffering, and Suffering to the Darkside. And the 5th step (the hidden one) is the step leading to Fear. Whereas the 6th point, is the link that ties all the other steps together.
Each Point and Step will be explained on its own, and as a whole.
The 5 Points:
1. Fear - "Fear is the mind killer. it is the little death that brings total destruction" - Paul Atreides. What is being said here is that Fear has the potential and capacity to destroy you without doing anything to you. That the mind has the potential of creating situations that we will trap ourselves in, and find no escape. Thus the fear of the unknown...
2. Anger - In this sense, Anger is the step of frustration. You are scared, you don't know... You do something that while being partly predictable, this is never a certainty in any situation. it has it's emotional backgrounds here as well. To erase the mind of Fear, the mind replaces it with Anger. Logic in emotion.
3. Hate - Same note as the point above, but also slightly different as well as being a little more "dramatic" People sometimes tend to hate what the are Angry at or what they Fear. This is a point that has its place in racism. How that one works, I'm really not sure of, but there is a direct connection here.
4. Suffering - Well, yes this one can come from Hate, and often does. What a lot of people don't understand, is that, in this entire phrase, the Suffering applies not only to the One, but to the Many, or vice versa. Either way, there is suffering in all beings, whether directly affected or not. As I would suffer due to my actions, so would those around me. It's a chain effect or a domino theory.
5. Darkside - Well, we know where this one was leading, and what it is insinuating.... Maybe... While it is true that The Jedi believed (in this point, I am speaking as in the terms of the movie) that the at of fearing would lead to the Darkside. While this can happen, it is not always so. Also, this phrasing is actually a little bit discriminating in saying that all Fear leads to Anger, and all Anger leads to Hate, and so on... This isn't always true. We can break the link at any given chain.
The 6 Steps:
1. Step to Fear - Now, something has to cause one to fear, whether it is the fear of the unknown, or even, the fear of knowing exactly what will happen. But this is the first step.
2. Fear to Anger - as said, the fear of the unknown can cause one to become angry at the unknown, the same as (if you follow me) a threat. Fear that it won't work, and the Anger of knowing that you are now having to either go through with it, or back down. in some cultures, the possibility of backing down, is NOT an option, as that there are those that honor Honor over Life, but this really isn't the discussion topic.
3. Anger to Hate - OK, well, this one is a step in the same direction. Anger is tolerable? though Hate is typically defined as a permanent and total dislike of... whatever, be it a person, situation, or anything. This is sometimes the gateway between dislike and obsession. 4. Hate to Suffering - Well, you Hate, and you suffer because of it. You Hate, and others will suffer along with you because of it. This is the step between Hate and Suffering, though they're pretty much instantaneous, this is still a valid and crucial step.
5. Suffering to the Darkside - Well, again, from a certain POV, this one can cause one to be immersed in the Darkside. By willingly bringing on such Sufferings, you are ultimately committing an act of the Darkside. The final in the link of single steps, but not the most crucial at all...
6. The Final Step - The tie that binds. Something has to bring these specific things together, and make them follow the path that they do. This is the step where everything comes together and manages to for the straight line. This is the point of giving one pause to reflect upon whether the means justify the ends, or the ends justify the means. This, the Final Step will go and give one the chance to view what the outcome of a possible chain of events will lead to.
Xaverri Darkcleod
Okay, first off the reason I responded so late is that I was hoping someone else might add their point of view on but it seems that the other threads have diverted attention from this one.
As a little note I would like to ask that people keep involved with all current threads, not just the most recent one :0)
"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering leads to the darkside"
The point of this one is very simple. The quote depicts a possible path of succession that the different categorized parts of emotion can take. The quote is based around the idea of evil/suffering being the darkside, as in the movie ideals so in that respect it is true however the reference to the 'darkside' can mean any number of things so in fact this quote can depict quite a number of paths of succession.
Rogue, you said 'if it is expressed incorrectly'
I would like to ask you, what makes this type of expression any more incorrect than any other form of expression.
Xav, a good analysis there covering some points which I wont go into.
What I will go into is that this quote explains ONE POSSIBLE path of succession. At any point, the path could diverge, converge or go back on itself.
Example:
Fear > Anger > Hate
Take your own mind for example. Have you ever found something in there that really scares the pants off you? Some people may not be able to deal with this directly, so they become angry with it. Here we have moved onto the second stage. Whilst some will spot the anger and fix the cause rather sharply, others are not able to do so and they start to hate the cause (they may also irrationally hate other things which are not connected...but that is another story). Now if they don't deal with their hate they can let it start to suppress them and they will start to suffer, but then some can maintain themselves at the stage of hate without any personal or external suffering being created whilst others can dissipate the hate before the suffering arises. On a further note you do occasionally find people who intentionally create the suffering to provide motivation for either themselves or for others to do something, personal ideals will dictate whether your mindset will allow you to do this.
So to the title of this post.
Quote Validity.
Is this quote valid?
Quite so. This quote is in fact valid, however it is not final and the only solid fixed path that will happen.
If the quote is taken at face value and anything that disagrees with it is disregarded as incorrect, then the quote is still valid, but from my personal opinion is not being interpreted in the most effective manner for that individual (though it may be beneficial to one person's causes that another person be themselves restricted to this point of view).
I shall finish there as I have a lecture in a few minutes, but I believe you should now be able to reference back to perceptions and see that the validity and interpretation is all down to the perception, as is so much you will find.
Colin Waring
Colin, correct and incorrect as in healthy and unhealthy, both to yourself, the target(s), and your surroundings. If you express anger by lashing out, it is, of course, unhealthy to yourself, unhealthy to whoever it hits, and it increases the anger level of the environment around you. That same reaction to the anger is also what, if too common, can cause lasting anger, or hate. I think that should explain it well enough.
Rogue Ace
Ahh so you have made the link of correct and incorrect corresponding to healthy and unhealthy respectively.
So do you believe this is based on your personal view, or that it is your view of what is universal?
Colin Waring
Everything is at least slightly personal, but I believe that what is healthy and unhealthy to yourself and others is universal. Punching someone in the kidney isn't a healthy thing for them, the force can have its positive and negative effects the same. Thus what is correct and incorrect would, by the same token, be universal, even if one set opinion doesn't quite have it all right.
Rogue Ace
My rant.
Of course fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to suffering. That is rather logical and linear thinking. It is rather reasonable to assume that emotions will beget another emotion. Thus fear will lead to anger, hate and ultimately to suffering. There is really nothing wrong with that what so ever.
However, within the quote they do not tell you that fear, anger, hate and suffering can ultimately lead to joy and bliss as well as the other way around. From one emotion you can get any other emotion that you can think of. From anger to zest for life.
Within the realms of magic and mysticism ones emotions are often associated with the element water. Which, at first glance is a rather unusual association because most would think that the element fire would be more appropriate to express the passions of ones emotions. Yet this is not the case, ones emotions are associated with the element of water for a good reason. This is because the oceans and seas of the earth can move and clash in every shape and form. From the calm babbling brook to the raging of a hurricane off the Atlantic ocean.
Emotions within the self are but a drop of water that can be shaped into different forms and shapes. But ultimately it is but a large ocean that can take change rapidly and violently. One has to learn to be a master of the seas before one learns to control ones emotions.
Arithion, Mage of the Mists.